tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17300290.post115592918611712429..comments2024-02-12T06:27:10.153-05:00Comments on Sketchy Thoughts: Quebecistan? I wish...kersplebedebhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08148717542412439319noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17300290.post-1157172367183676222006-09-02T00:46:00.000-04:002006-09-02T00:46:00.000-04:00is the quebec bourgeoisie really that independent ...is the quebec bourgeoisie really that independent from the ruling class in english canada? is it right to see them as a rival bloc of capital vis-a-vis capital from english canada, as a rising national bourgeoisie seeking its own state? indeed, are there any up to date studies in french on the quebec bourgeoisie? the material from nefac seems to lack this kind of empirical material. the last study in english that i read on interlocking directorships amongst the canadian economic elite suggested that the Quebec fraction was fully integrated with the english canadian fraction. see william k. carroll, "corporate power in a globalizing world" (2004). any answers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17300290.post-1156107943524836642006-08-20T17:05:00.000-04:002006-08-20T17:05:00.000-04:00Phebus raises some excellent points - ones which i...Phebus raises some excellent points - ones which i don't think should be answered in the "comments" section... so i have posted his comments along with my answers: see <A HREF="http://sketchythoughts.blogspot.com/2006/08/more-on-quebec-nation.html" REL="nofollow">More on the Quebec Nation</A>.kersplebedebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08148717542412439319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17300290.post-1156032330387705402006-08-19T20:05:00.000-04:002006-08-19T20:05:00.000-04:00I liked the article, thanks for writting it. Just ...I liked the article, thanks for writting it. Just a few comments...<BR/><BR/><I>Like i said, on a fundamental level – peu importe 1760 – what we have here is what we have elsewhere on this blood-drenched continent.</I><BR/><BR/>Are you really sure about that? Is racism as structural as in the US? When I read about the US theories about race and I compare to the situation in Quebec, I dont see the same thing, especialy outside Montreal. I am not sure the same structural division along race lines exist in Quebec. A relatively recent study asking why Quebec city had an hard time integrating new immigrants found that one of the reason was because the labor intensive jobs usualy taken by immigrants are already filled by white francophones. Further more, there is no unified "white race" in Quebec. White francophones are the vast majority of the workers in the province and their are the majority in all social layers.<BR/><BR/>We have our own racism in Quebec but saying what we have here is fundamentaly the same as in the US will not help us understand the situation and fight it. The only fundamental level where it is the same is in relation to natives.<BR/><BR/><I>the actual role played by the national movement (...) in elaborating a national class perspective.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not sure I am following you, could you please elaborate?<BR/><BR/><I>Instead, NEFAC adopts a good final position on the national question in Quebec, but bases this on a facile dismissal of anti-colonialism </I>tout court.<BR/><BR/>I think you are miss-reading the statement. What we are rejecting is national liberation, not anti-colonialism or anti-imperialism. If that was the case, we would not have taken the pain to try to get an historical analysis of the situation and we would just have wrote a traditional a-historical anti-nationalist anarchist rant. The mere existence of the document is a testimony to the fact that we take anti-colonialism seriously. <BR/><BR/>Furthermore, we <B>are</B> <I>acknowledging the need to combat national oppression where it exists, i.e. in the First Nations and amongst francophones outside of Quebec</I>. This is exactly what we are saying when we write: "Along the way, down the path of social revolution, libertarian communism, with its emphasis on federalism and democracy, will offer an opportunity to address the whole range of national questions existing in Canada -- the Quebecois, what's left of the french canadians, the Indigenious and others".<BR/><BR/>What we do say is that we will concentrate on the social question, wich does not mean that we will ignore all other questions. Like we've explained else where, uniting the working class involves dealing with it's divisions wich means that the working class movement will have to deal head on with issue of racism and patriarcal domination. The only real basis to unite the working class is to organise it around the needs of the most oppressed sectors, wich mean's building an anti-racist and anti-patriarcal class movement.<BR/><BR/><I>What we need to examine – and i’m not pretending to be able to do so here – is the actual meaning and implications of this “correction” of national oppression. Largely, what we can see is the elevation of Quebecois to a position of “equality” with their white North American counterparts (i.e. Quebecois workers “equal” to white English workers, Quebecois petit-bourgeois “equal” to white English petit bourgeois, etc.) – but that this “equality” relies on intensifying the inequality suffered by indigenous people and immigrants.</I><BR/><BR/>I think the most significant "implications of this “correction” of national oppression" is the creation of a Quebec (francophone) bourgeoisie and the rise of Quebec from an oppressed nation to a full fledge imperialist power (albeit a small one). In this perspective, the position of "equality" reached by the Quebecois relies more on the mecanism of imperialism then anything else.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17300290.post-1156028988673162272006-08-19T19:09:00.000-04:002006-08-19T19:09:00.000-04:00Another difference I see is that while the revolut...Another difference I see is that while the revolutionary left in Quebec <B>is</B> patheticaly weak it look strong in comparison with the US and English Canada. I used to read a lot of the american and canadian anarchist newspapers and I was relating a lot with their complains about the "anarchist movement" (how it's white, middle class, divorced from the oppressed, etc.). Until I actually traveled to some US anarchist gatherings, I was under the impression that we could make a comparison with our own situation. Well... We can't, it's not the same at all. In comparison to the US, Quebec anarchists look much more stronger and almost rooted in the working class! Maybe I am wrong, but it look like you dont have in the US that layer of anarchist militants with mass struggle experience that you have in Quebec. I suspect this is in part due to the real difference between the student movement in Quebec and in the rest of North America and in part due to the network of neigborhood based community groups wich is relatively easy to get involved with in Quebec.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17300290.post-1156020635778635622006-08-19T16:50:00.000-04:002006-08-19T16:50:00.000-04:00i realize it's an exaggeration - i have met many g...i realize it's an exaggeration - i have met many good militants from the United States and English Canada who are either in NEFAC or very sympathetic.<BR/><BR/>But i find it jarring that five of the eleven collectives listed on the NEFAC site are in Quebec. Not saying this is bad or good, just real noticeable.<BR/><BR/>To a degree my take may be biassed because i have lived here since i was a kid, so i am most aware of what is going on here, but there seems to be a far heavier concentration of NEFAC and NEFAC-style politics (i.e. with an attempt to keep class central, and a hope to making inroads into the unionized working class - the former something i view more positively than the latter) in Quebec than elsewhere.<BR/><BR/>My guess as to why this is so?<BR/><BR/>Well, class-based politics (or at least politics which are considered class-based) seem stronger in Quebec than in most of the rest of the North-East. In part i think this is related to what i mentioned in my post - that while <EM>today</EM> white Quebecois-e-s are in a similar class/national situation as white Anglo-Canadians and even white Americans, within living memory this was not so. Movements and politics carry with them the imprint of this recent past.<BR/><BR/>Just the fact that Quebec is the only place in North America where Mayday is celebrated by "regular people," or where communism and socialism were considered real options by many "regular people" within living memory... all of this creates a basis for the kind of politics NEFAC has which i don't see existing to the same degree in other parts of white North America.<BR/><BR/>Of course, having said that, i should stress that i'm a bit of an ignoramus about many parts of the US, so if anybody cares to correct me on this i'd welcmoe the education...kersplebedebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08148717542412439319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17300290.post-1156019267733252542006-08-19T16:27:00.000-04:002006-08-19T16:27:00.000-04:00The North East Federation of Anarchist Communists ...<I>The North East Federation of Anarchist Communists (<B>a federation which at times seems to be mainly based in Quebec</B>!)</I><BR/><BR/>Just curious: what lead you to say this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17300290.post-1155942583904297032006-08-18T19:09:00.000-04:002006-08-18T19:09:00.000-04:00To be very honest with you, I'm not a separatist. ...To be very honest with you, I'm not a separatist. However, allow me to do a few observations. The problem with the "Quebecker nationalist movement" is that its members give the feeling to "immigrants" that they don't want to consider the so-called "immigrants" as real Quebecker, because the image of a white francophone is so deeply rooted into the white francophones' collective mentality for defining a Quebecker.Anh Khoi Dohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018387547508527604noreply@blogger.com